SIG 226 Tactical: Opinions Please

Dev, as our leading SIGophant, I'm looking to you for help. However, anyone's contributions will be welcome.

A good gunnie friend turned me on to a SIG P226 Tactical in .40. This gun is lightly used (50 rounds) store demo that can't be sold to the Cali public anymore because of Kalifornia's byzantine gun laws. LNIB. DA/SA with a short reset trigger. Four mags. All for ~$850. I'm looking for a steel "battle" pistol.

What are you opinions on this SIG? Any more desirable options? Good price? I've heard about the SIG caliber conversions to 9 and22 - any thing I should be wary of?

Thanks,

CF

I like 226's. I have 2 - one a DAK and one a DA/SA. The DA/SA is my preference. I also like the SRT, which I have in all my Sig's. It turns out the same version (kit) fits all the classic line guns (220, 226, 227, 228, 229). The only other thing I like are the E2 grips, which I also have on all my Sigs. They make the gun feel like a real gun and not a bed post.

Sig's can shoot. You will find them inherently accurate. Like a 1911, they need to be well oiled. I recently started using Slide-Glide Lite grease from Brian Enos) on my shooting guns (not 1911's). It is less messy and does a great job of lubing. I would assume any good grease would work.

As you may remember, I am not a fan of anything on the rear sight, so routinely turn mine around, putting the white line in front. The newer versions of the rear sight are harder to do that, as they have this overhangy thing. I have widened the slot and painted the white dots black on my 227 until I could come up with an old style blade rear.

The front I have the white dot. I paint it with a small camel hair brush and glossy white paint you get at a model shop. Makes the front pop out better. (Did that on my Shield, too.)

That sounds like a decent price, expecially including 4 mags. Mags are usually about $40 (-) each. Seriously consider getting a .357 barrel. They are about $180. They drop in, and all the rest is the same - same mags, same recoil spring, same slide. Just barrel change and you have probably THE best SD round out there.

Takes a bit of time to get accustomed to the slide release vs decock levers. There is initially some tendency to push the decock lever instead of the slide release, but you get over that pretty quickly.

Detail disassembly of the frame isn't terribly hard. Do not take apart the hammer and hammer strut/spring! They are a bummer to get back in correctly. It will take you "several" attempts - and a lot of bad words. There is in truth no real need to take them down. There is a little spring in the back of the hammer that has to be in the right relation to one of the pins in the frame. Make sure you know how it goes BEFORE you take things apart in the frame. Fitting the ejector/sear combination takes a bit of time but isn't inherently a hard thing. Just lining things up. The springs for the trigger bar and the decock lever take a touch of work getting back in; needle nose pliers (smaller versioni) work well here. There is a back plate to the decock lever that is inside the frame. It is loose until you get other stuff in. You generally have to put it in with a finger, then put the mag in to hold it in place. Once you get the spring in, that holds the plate in place.

BUY THIS THING! YOU WILL LIKE IT!

Thanks Dev.

The SIG has jumped to the top of my handgun list. I've found a local range that has a SIG Tac for rent. I'll try before I buy. And my buddy will take a look at the actual gun.

If I buy, I'll prolly get the 9mm and 22 conversions later.

Thanks again.

I ordered my .22 kits from Sig for a 226 & 229. The 226 came with a threaded barrel.

Sigs are singularly easy to field strip, so changing to a .22 kit takes all of about 30 seconds. My only gripe with the .22 kits is that they don't lock open on the last shot. Otherwise they work great and shoot well.

You know I am a 1911 fan. I love that weapon, and so have a ton of them.

Still, I have to say that Sig has risen in my esteem. It is one of the weapons I consider carrying. Matter of fact, I am getting a Mitch Rosen holster for my 229 as soon as the kitty allows it. I have a leather-making friend who is making me a gunbelt.

I took Otis' recommendation and bought the 228 kit from GunBroker. Cost me $150. It is a complete 228 - from Germany no less - less the frame. ALL the springs, screws, bolts, slide and barrel and recoil spring, hammer and strut and spring, decock spring, trigger bar spring. Even an old style set of grips. At first it wouldn't go on the 229 frame. It slid onto the frame but jammed up part way back. I couldn't figure what was doing this, so I looked at the frame closely, watched the spaces under the slide as it slid on, then studied the undersides of my two slides. There are minor differences, but what finally caught my eye was that the barrel lug that cams the barrel down appeared to be taller than the .357 Sig barrel. And it hit me - trigger block. So I changed that, and voila! It works fine (at least dry - haven't fired it yet).

But my point is that these guns really are easy to work on. I find the 1911 also easy as the Marine Corps drilled that into me, but these are pretty simple too. Getting the trigger block back on is a bit tricky. You have to have the hammer down, so the trigger back, for it to fit on. You have to make sure the slide stop lever is against the side of the frame - it is loose on the pin without the block. I found insserting the block seemed easier holding it upside down - kept that little spring in better. And, of course, you have to begin reinserting the take-down lever with the lever UP. There is a little detend on the far side of that pin and when the lever is up, it allows that little spring to fit in there. Then when you turn the lever, it levers the spring aside and you can advance the pin.

Now, I have to honestly say say it is easier to take down a 1911. You don't need any tools. You don't get a bunch of small springs. Things go together a bit easier (except maybe the hammer spring/back strap) - but maybe that's because I have taken down hundreds of 1911's, maybe more. It is almost second nature.

False alarm, dammit.

My friend got back to the dealer and found that the pistol had already been sold several days ago. <sigh>

At a price of $850 it was bound to not sit around very long. If you are going to consider a used Sig, you will have to be quicker on the draw me thinks.

Still, it is hardly the only Sig produced. You will get another chance. Just keep your eyes pealed. Sigs are great guns. They aren't the only great guns, but there is much to choose them over others. The more I shoot mine the more I like them.

Charlie, I'm sorry this fell through, was a great sounding deal. Also, sorry I'm late to the party. Should a P226 still be on your radar, I'd like to share a couple thoughts for you to contemplate. If you get a P226 in 40 or 357, you can run the other caliber (40 or 357) by simply swapping the barrel with an OEM SIG barrel. To run 9mm, you can run an OEM SIG 9mm barrel with a 9mm recoil spring and 9mm mags (this also applies to the P239 and P224, all three newer designs created here in the US of A.)

For a handgun with defensive applications, I don't care for any silver, black is my hands down choice. Your comment regarding a steel combat pistol peeked this thought of mine. With SIG's, there are a couple options available for you to consider. All the US production P-series handguns have a stainless slide and either a stainless or alloy (aluminum) frame. Limiting the discussion to black or silver (I can't picture you with a Rainbow), you can get a black or silver frame and/or slide (or any combination: black frame, silver slide known as two tone; or silver frame black slide known as reverse two tone). Where things get dicey regarding your desire is that the silver frames are typically stainless and the black frames are typically alloy.

A black stainless slide gets a treatment SIG calls Nitron, which is a form of carburizing. The black alloy frames are anodized to acheive this color. Both treatments make the respective surfaces much harder than untreated. At one time, SIG offered a stainless nitron finish on several of the P-series handguns. This is an all black stainless frame and slide which has been recently discontinued. If you want a black all steel SIG, the time is no better than right now to start the hunt. I might suggest you contact Mark at Summit Gun Broker, he has had these in stock recently in the P226, I got lucky and picked one up in 9mm from him.

The P226 is a great handgun. It is one of the basic SIG's each firearms enthusiast needs to own!

Otis2 wrote:Charlie, I'm sorry this fell through, was a great sounding deal. Also, sorry I'm late to the party. Should a P226 still be on your radar, I'd like to share a couple thoughts for you to contemplate. If you get a P226 in 40 or 357, you can run the other caliber (40 or 357) by simply swapping the barrel with an OEM SIG barrel. To run 9mm, you can run an OEM SIG 9mm barrel with a 9mm recoil spring and 9mm mags (this also applies to the P239 and P224, all three newer designs created here in the US of A.)

For a handgun with defensive applications, I don't care for any silver, black is my hands down choice. Your comment regarding a steel combat pistol peeked this thought of mine. With SIG's, there are a couple options available for you to consider. All the US production P-series handguns have a stainless slide and either a stainless or alloy (aluminum) frame. Limiting the discussion to black or silver (I can't picture you with a Rainbow), you can get a black or silver frame and/or slide (or any combination: black frame, silver slide known as two tone; or silver frame black slide known as reverse two tone). Where things get dicey regarding your desire is that the silver frames are typically stainless and the black frames are typically alloy.

A black stainless slide gets a treatment SIG calls Nitron, which is a form of carburizing. The black alloy frames are anodized to acheive this color. Both treatments make the respective surfaces much harder than untreated. At one time, SIG offered a stainless nitron finish on several of the P-series handguns. This is an all black stainless frame and slide which has been recently discontinued. If you want a black all steel SIG, the time is no better than right now to start the hunt. I might suggest you contact Mark at Summit Gun Broker, he has had these in stock recently in the P226, I got lucky and picked one up in 9mm from him.

The P226 is a great handgun. It is one of the basic SIG's each firearms enthusiast needs to own!

?Wasn't there something else you needed to do to make the 9mm reliable in a .40 gun. I seem to remember that because the bolt face is .40, the 9 is smaller, so suffers some issues. ?Extraction maybe.

The mag issue is real. Interestingly, the 229 seems to use the same mags for either 9mm OR .40/.357 Sig. But not the 226. I have both, and have to look at the mags to make sure I have the right ones, as they appear the same and the difference in the top is relatively small - not immediately obvious to these old eyes.

Devereaux wrote:?Wasn't there something else you needed to do to make the 9mm reliable in a .40 gun. I seem to remember that because the bolt face is .40, the 9 is smaller, so suffers some issues. ?Extraction maybe.

I've had no issues with my P226, P224 or P239 running any of the three calibers using an OEM SIG barrel.  Not being a fan of 40 S&W, 357 SIG is my preferred carry round, 9mm is a great practice/range round due to price and availability.  The SIG extractor does the three calibers fine.  When  converting my Glocks in 357 SIG down to 9mm, I do change the extractor for reliability.

The smaller barrel extension of the 9mm barrel does create a slight gap in the breach face, but I don't see any adverse impact on lockup or accuracy for practice or training.  Using this setup for defense is a personal decision, I don't mind the converted SIG's, you will want to make your own decision.

I am wholly with you on the .40 vs .357 Sig. I simply find reloading .40 easier, so I can make practice ammo more easily. But my .229 has .357 Sig for the defensive load.

I will have to look into the 9mm bit. I have found that magazines in 9mm for my 226 are different than the .40's, and don't seem to load 9mm well. But the 229 is the same, and shoots either easily.

Dev, you may want to take a look at the Montana Gold 125 gr 357 SIG specific bullets. The ogive on the bullet is considerably shorter than a typical 9mm bullet, leaving a longer cylinder to obtain a good crimp with. I, too, struggled with reloading 357 SIG, until I discovered this bullet. Now I've run well over 5,000 trouble free rounds through my press. This bullet is the nut for reloading 357 SIG.

http://montanagoldbullet.com/index.php/357sig-125gr-fmj.html

Your link is not working at the moment, but that may be because I'm in Mexico, where the internet is often dog-tired slow. Will try this evening, and maybe if that doesn't work, when I get home.

Thanks for the heads up.

BTW, ?just what do you use for dies. I have heard a number of ways to do this. One was to decap and resize with a .40 die, then secondarily size with a .357S die. I have also heard that the necks are "touchy". I am personally a fan of either Hornady or Redding (probably in reverse order) dies. Not a fan of Lee, and Dillons don't do much for me other than the seating die has a neat way of removing the center and cleaning without moving the die.

Hmmmm . . .

I'm dog tired slow but not in Mexico.

I'm not sure which die set I have, not home right now, either. It's a carbide die set specifically for 357 SIG by either Redding or RCBS. I purchase a Lee Factory Crimp die, also, but have found that to be unnecessary. Once I got the dies set to the proper sizes and settings, it is any easy load to work with, nothing done with it that I don't do with other handhun rounds I load like 380 ACP, 9mm, 38 Spec, 357 Mag, 45 ACP or 10mm. I use an RCBS progressive press and have a head for each caliber. This allows me to set the dies and forget it, checking everything is still good when I restart, swapping heads for caliber changes.

Devereaux wrote:I will have to look into the 9mm bit. I have found that magazines in 9mm for my 226 are different than the .40's, and don't seem to load 9mm well. But the 229 is the same, and shoots either easily.

Dev, here is a thread I started on another forum (mods, I hope I am ok with this link, please delete if not).  I have done extensive measuring of various barrels, the P226 barrels all have identical external dimensions, regardless of caliber.  (Except for the rear end of the barrel hood that engages with the breech face of the slide, the 9mm being a bit more narrow than the other two.)

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-gunsmithing/37044-p226-same-p239-p224.html

I was quite active on that forum as a moderator, stepped down in the past couple months for philosophical reasons.  I developed this conversion chart, which may be helpful, also.

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-gunsmithing/17536-barrel-conversion-tables.html

If you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to ask, I'll address to the best of my knowledge.  I am a SIG factory certified armorer, these things are probably frowned upon by the mothership.  LOL

Looked at those threads, Otis. Interesting. I would gather that I could buy an OEM barrel in 9mm for my 229 and it would work. But since I got that 228 kit you mentioned a bit ago, and have it working nicely, I guess I don't really need to do that.

On the 226 end, I have 2; one is a 9 and the other is a .40 with a .357 barrel. I have tried using 9mm ammo in the .40 magazines and they don't seem to work that well. But interestingly, the 228/229 mags seem interchangeable. OTOH the barrels require a change in the trigger block (for the 228 to work). Found that out when I tried to slide the 228 slide onto the 229 frame and it wouldn't go. Looking at it I noted that the locking lug part seemed different in the two slides. I have never attempted to insert the 9mm barrel in the .40 slide, nor the other way around. Despite both being 226's, the .40 is a DAK, and somehow I view it differently. Not rational, I know, but there it is. I have contemplated getting the parts and putting in the DA/SA works into it, but have not done that. I realize it can be done, but am not sure I want to. The DAK, for all that I don't really LIKE it, is an interesting mechanism and worthy of being shot as is. It may be the best DA trigger out there for autos.

Devereaux wrote:I would gather that I could buy an OEM barrel in 9mm for my 229 and it would work. But since I got that 228 kit you mentioned a bit ago, and have it working nicely, I guess I don't really need to do that.

I think a little confusion is starting to creep into this discussion.  Hopefully, I can clarify here and help you and others that may be interested.  To the best of my knowledge, the OEM barrel interchangeability applies only to the P224, P239 and P226.  These models are interesting in that they were all designed and developed by SIG Sauer in the US of A.  If you start with one of these three models in 40 S&W or 357 SIG, you can swap the calibers between 9mm, 357 SIG and 40 S&W using OEM barrels.   You mention specifically the model P229, that is a different beast, in and of itself, and these statements do not apply to the P229 at all.  Hence my recommendation that you pick up the P228 kit.

On the 226 end, I have 2; one is a 9 and the other is a .40 with a .357 barrel.

My research on the P226 tells me you can use the P226 9mm barrel in your P226 originally chambered in 40 S&W.  You will want to use a 9mm recoil spring should you do that combination, but it should fit just fine and function perfectly for you.

Found that out when I tried to slide the 228 slide onto the 229 frame and it wouldn't go. Looking at it I noted that the locking lug part seemed different in the two slides.

This would be addressed by changing out the locking insert, the large block in the frame above the trigger and held in place by the takedown lever.  Your P228 parts kit should have come with this part, you will need to install it into the P229 frame in order to utilize the P228 9mm slide.

I have never attempted to insert the 9mm barrel in the .40 slide, nor the other way around.

The P226 9mm barrel will fit and function in the P226 40 S&W slide with no part swapping involved other than the 9mm recoil spring.  The 40 S&W barrel, however, will not work in the P226 9mm slide.  The breech face of the 40 S&W slide is wider than the 9mm, the extension on the rear end of the 40 S&W barrel is wider than that of the 9mm and will not mate with the 9mm breech face.

Despite both being 226's, the .40 is a DAK, and somehow I view it differently. Not rational, I know, but there it is. I have contemplated getting the parts and putting in the DA/SA works into it, but have not done that. I realize it can be done, but am not sure I want to. The DAK, for all that I don't really LIKE it, is an interesting mechanism and worthy of being shot as is. It may be the best DA trigger out there for autos.

Whether the frame is a DAK, DAO or DA/SA has no bearing whatsoever on the interchangeability of the barrels per this discussion.

The DAK, for concealed carry, is by far my favorite SIG trigger.  I don't care for the DA/SA trigger on the SIG's for a few reasons, this is a very personal choice and I will never call anyone out for not liking one of the SIG triggers or another, they are all fine.  All my training has been with Glocks, going to a DA/SA manual of arms (MoA) would require, for me, unlearning everything I have learned with the Glock MoA and relearn the nuances of the DA/SA trigger.  I don't care for the heavy initial, double action trigger pull of the SIG DA/SA trigger, it is in the 10# plus range.  This, followed by the extremely light ~2# single action trigger pull, exacerbated by many by installing the Short Reset Trigger (SRT).  I view the initial pull in any defensive scenario to be the most critical and want for it to be the most accurate.  Yes, I could certainly train to overcome this deficiency in my performance, but I have other options available.  Another aspect of the DA/SA trigger system is the need to decock any time you are in single action mode and no longer in a fight mode or need to reluctantly reholster.  Again, something I could train to develop these skills, but I see no need.

The consistent trigger pull, whether the initial trigger pull or a trigger pull from the intermediate reset of the DAK trigger is much more to my liking and more closely resembles the trigger of my Glocks.  We are truly living in the golden age of firearms, there is a trigger out there for just about any taste and skill level.  My cup of tea is closer to the Glock trigger, just a personal preference that I won't force on anyone else.

Hope this helps clear some of the smoke around the issue.

Well, OK. That does clear a few things up. I had sort of considered that the 229 was included in the group that could swap barrels, but apparently I am wrong. But then, ?what of the 9mm 229. I know that originally there were 2 models - the 228 and the 229 - and that the former was 9 while the latter .40. BUT now the new 229's come in any of the 3 calibres. ?So can you now swap out the 9 barrels into the .40 slides of new 229's.

I did figure out the block thing with a little observation. Now my "228" works great. I can convert it to the 229 any time. Interestingly, both my 226 in 9 and the 228 were manufactured in Germany, per the stampings (can't remember about the 229). ?Why if it was a USA design did it get made in Germany.

I fully understand your sense about the DAK trigger. I did say it is probably the best DA trigger out there. But I still don't care for it that much. I have learned to shoot the first round relatively well from the DA and the rest SA. And I have SRT's in my guns.

Which does bring up a question. ?Are SRT's available for the DAK. I recognize that the mechanism is different, but some shortening of the pull would be nice. And the reset on the DAK is long, one of the things I generally DON"T like about DA guns. Ruger does that too on some of their autos.

There is also the fact that you can "stage" the DAK trigger. ?Is that frowned upon.

Devereaux wrote:I had sort of considered that the 229 was included in the group that could swap barrels, but apparently I am wrong. But then, ?what of the 9mm 229. I know that originally there were 2 models - the 228 and the 229 - and that the former was 9 while the latter .40. BUT now the new 229's come in any of the 3 calibres. ?So can you now swap out the 9 barrels into the .40 slides of new 229's.

The P228 was the original, chambered in 9mm.  The P229, when first introduced, was chambered in 40 S&W.  The frames were slightly different, primarily in the magwell area, the P229 being a bit wider to accommodate the wider double stack 40 S&W mag. SIG continued with this dual frame manufacturing inefficiency for a number of years, developing a P229, based on the P228, chambered in 9mm parallel with but different than the P229 chambered in 40 S&W.  

As manufacturing efficiency theories developed, the two platforms were merged, using the wider mag well frame for both the 9mm and 40 S&W P229's.  The principle impact of this change was on the magazines, the new 9mm mags were a tad wider to fit the newly designed mag well.  These became known as the P229-1 magazines, the older, more narrow became known as P228/P229 magazines.  When buying P229 9mm magazines today, you will typically see these two designations, helping to differentiate the width of the mags.  Of course, the 40 S&W and 357 SIG mags were not impacted by this change, so you will be able to intermix older and newer mags with older and newer P229 40/357 frames.

I believe, and this is entirely conjecture on my part, the newer designs, specifically those designed in the US, the P226, P239, P224 and P227, benefited greatly by CAD/CAM developments.  Slides and frames were designed capable of being used in the three calibers in the P226, P239 and P224.  The P229, being developed prior to some of this computing whiz bang power, has some design limitations that prevent this interchangeability.  The slide of the 9mm P229 needed to be a bit lighter, hence material was wallowed out of the inside of the slide, necessitating a larger barrel hood to properly cycle within those confines.  The 40/357 slides, being cycled by a substantially more powerful round, could maintain a bit more heft, hence the smaller barrel hood on those barrels, making the swapping of 9mm P229 barrels with 40/357 slides impossible.  Again, this paragraph is merely my rambling and yammering and in no way based on fact.

Which does bring up a question. ?Are SRT's available for the DAK.

No, the SRT is only applicable with the DA/SA SIG triggers.

There is also the fact that you can "stage" the DAK trigger. ?Is that frowned upon.

I guess it is similar to shouldering my SIG brace.  It is frowned upon by those that developed and manufactured the trigger.  I stage my DAK trigger and use the intermediate reset often.  Heresy in the world of SIG, I know, but I won't tell if you won't.

Thank you, Otis, for that informative discourse. I am always fascinated with that kind of info.

?Just how much difference was there in the mag well sizes. I have an old 229 (before the rail - had to get a new hammer strut and spring to install the E2 grips). ?Is it dimensionally the same as the new ones. I have purchased a couple mags that were labelled 228/229, and they work fine. I have used my .357 Sig/.40 mags and they also work fine - AND hold 9's well.

I find your comments about the barrel hoods interesting. I had always viewed hoods as they apply to 1911's. There, the hoods are more loosely set in a combat gun, and very tight in a bullseye gun. The tighter fit was considered to make the weapon a bit less reliable but more accurate, since in a match you can always alibi a string.

Dev, what is the serial number of your P229?  Please don't list it in it's entirety, just the first two letters and the first two numerals following, like this:  AK22XX  

Whether the P229 has a rail or not is really not an indication of the age of the gun and whether it is using the newer or older style frames.  If your 40/357 mags fit into it, you most likely have the newer style frame, the serial number will confirm that for me.  The older P228/P229 mags will work in the newer style, also known as the 40 S&W frame.  They will be a bit more narrow and may be a little loose in the mag well.  You can easily compare the width of the 9mm mags and the 40/357 mags and confirm the difference.  

SIG accuracy is based on a tight lockup of the barrel to the slide.  There are several critical lockup points, those being:

The front of the barrel, top and bottom, where it contacts the muzzle end of the slide
The front of the barrel hood
The back of the barrel hood/breech face engagement
The camming lug that projects from the bottom of the barrel hood

These points in concert create the tight lockup SIG's are known for.  If you are using a 9mm OEM SIG barrel in a 40/357 slide, the back of the barrel hood/breech face engagement is replaced by the sides of the barrel hood and the inside of the slide.  This can create a little bit less tight lockup, but not terribly detrimental to the accuracy of the weapon.  Most times, this 9mm barrel usage in a 40/357 slide is for training/practice and the reduced price of ammo.  And if used in a carry/defensive scenario, most civilian encounters are at a close enough range to not have any noticeable effect.

You'll have to wait a couple days as I don't have it with me. I get home Monday, so I will put up the serial number then.

OK, Otis. The number is: AD 33XXX The frame also says it's made in Germany, under the Sig Arms Exeter, NH inscription.

Very nice, I estimate your P229 being manufactured in the 1994 to 1995 time frame, well before SIG unified the P229 frames to one size. This frame unification occurred in approximately 2009 to 2010 and it was a rolling change over. There was no clean break point at which time all P229 frames used the 40 S&W frame exclusively. I believe this had to do with inventory levels SIG had on hand at the time of the conversion of the older P229 9mm frames and nothing else, but, again, this is merely speculation on my part.

Wow. I didn't realize it was that old. But it's a solid performer.

When I got it, I got 2 barrels - .40 & .357 Sig. But it had the slab sides. It was a strange feeling gun in the hand. It shot really, really well, though. I had an XD at the time also, and although the XD felt better in the hand, the Sig outshot it time after time - slab sides and all. I ended up selling the XD because it just wasn't as good a gun.

Then I got a set of E2 grips and installed the SRT sear. Sea change in how the gun felt! It still shot really, really well, but it felt very nice in the hand. And I like the SRT. I recognize your arguments for the DAK, and I DO think it's a nice DA, but I'm just old fashioned. I like relatively light triggers, and the SA is that. The DA keeps you honest for the 1st shot, and I have practiced with it, just to feel the pull on the first shot. Indeed, I will shoot 2's and 3's off the DA, just to get the feel right. It is CLEARLY heavier than the DAK, but somehow it doesn't bother me for one shot. Just call me weird.